Awakening Our Shared Humanity: Embracing Oneness in the Battle for Social Justice with Rebecca Eldredge

Sheila Franzen:

Welcome to the spiritual gig podcast, Wisdom for modern times, where we focus on living with intention to consciously create a life you love and celebrate. I'm your host, Sheila Franson, and I'm so excited to share another episode with you. Today, Rebecca Eldridge has joined me for a discussion about remaining present and engaged in social justice change making without sacrificing your well-being. It's a handful, and so we'll look forward to diving into that. For 2 decades, licensed psychologist, Rebecca Elders, has focused on integrating multicultural issues into her work with clients, university departments, refugees, graduate students, and organizations. As a therapist, speaker, coach, and facilitator, she shares her mental health training and passion for social justice in service of those who give so much of themselves to others. Her work centers around the importance of compassion and well-being to maximize impact and wholehearted living. Rebecca incorporates neuroscience along with the importance of understanding emotions into how we take care of ourselves and each other engage with difficult conversations and improve relationships and systems to be spaces of inclusion belonging and safety for all people. She completed her MA and PhD in counseling psychology from Southern Illinois City Carbondale and taught adjunct in the University of Houston's and our lady of the Lake's graduate psychology programs. She's also a step into your moxie certified facilitator. So welcome, Rebecca. It's wonderful to have you.

Rebecca Eldredge:

Thank you. It's wonderful to be here.

Sheila Franzen:

Is there anything else you'd like to share, as we dive into this conversation about yourself, your journey, your path?

Rebecca Eldredge:

No. I'm looking forward to seeing where this conversation takes us.

Sheila Franzen:

Awesome. So One of the things that stands out to me, actually, as I read your bio and the, like, the word that really, spoke to me as I was reading it again, just now, was the word wholehearted living And I just think that's such a beautiful, like, way and intention to talk about living, like, wholehearted. Like, how do you describe wholehearted living?

Rebecca Eldredge:

When I envision or try to embody that wholehearted living. I think I'm sure Renee Brown does a better job of actually articulating and defining And I think she even uses that term in maybe one of her books, but it's that that living with your whole being and being connected to the feelings to even the deep and intense feelings as a part of what inspires you, what moves you, what motivates you, sometimes that's things that are scary and that takes risks. Sometimes it's the things that are joyful and celebratory but it's really being fully embodied in your life and all that you're doing in ways that feel uniquely you.

Sheila Franzen:

Like, I love how you describe that. And You know, I think that there's so much of that word that, like, even when I read the intro to the podcast, right, living in with intention to create a life you love and celebrate Like, we can't do that if we're not willing to be wholehearted in how we live. That is the That is what we're trying to do. Right? That's where the fun, the joy, the peace, the love comes out of wholehearted living.

Rebecca Eldredge:

Absolutely. And it comes up so often in my conversations with with clients or or even group cirteens within organizations where where there's this illusion or this myth that somehow people can divorce themselves from all of the negative, all of the heartache, the fear, the anger, the sadness, and just have the positive energy and the enjoyment and the excitement and the happiness and the contentment and you know, all of the things that we label as good feelings and none of the feelings that we label is bad feelings. And yet, wholehearted living, intentional living, as you said, really incorporates all of them Like, they all have value and they're all a part of the human experience.

Sheila Franzen:

That I have this conversation a lot. And I've had it a lot with my teenagers who are, you know, going through that phase of life of trying to reconcile the amount of motion, of emotion that I think comes up as a teenager, but just because of what being a teenager means. Right? Our brains are changing. Our bodies are changing. We're, you know, we're going through all of that. And then you need to bring in all the social aspects of being a teenager and you just wanna be happy. And the habits of our society are the instant gratification and, the feel good. Right? Like, everything that's targeted everywhere is the the good part of life. But and when those tough feelings come up, if we haven't learned skills and be willing to have the capacity to hold those hard emotions. they come out in not great ways. They make life harder.

Rebecca Eldredge:

That's for sure. And it doesn't end with being a teenager. I mean, we even start with being a teenager. I know I'm these conversations with my six year old about her big feelings. And so, yeah, it's it's important to figure out how to relate to and even trust those sensations and the wisdom that they hold.

Sheila Franzen:

and just even be willing to acknowledge them. Yeah. So that's that's the first thing. And so it kinda brings me back to the topic that you had mentioned for this discussion, which was remaining present, and engaged in social justice change making without sacrificing your well-being. And so when I think even just this aspect of wholehearted and the contrast of emotions that we're talking about, That remaining present, in these really challenging topics that you're talking about with social justice and creating change around social justice or just change making in general to stay present with you know, what what do we do with all this for many of us? The you know, I think there is a level of frustration. and, struggle with the some of the things that are going on in the world and in the US and in our political system. And I don't know. Sometimes I feel it in our school systems and in our cities. And if we're living life in any of these places. Like, I I just this concept of remaining like, I understand remaining present, but I do find sometimes it's so easy to get wound up in my head, right, around these battles. And I, you know, I always know peace starts within. Right? We're not gonna create world peace by, you know, world peace is an inside job. So this aspect of remaining present, to create you know, peace and stay engaged because I know personally, I often excuse me. I often Funny that I'm losing my voice trying to speak this out loud. That's interesting. I disengage, right, because there's a part of it that's easier to disengage because of the challenge and the battle I wanna go into sometimes to fight for things that are you know, just basic human rights. And so, like, where do you even dive into this conversation of, like, remaining present to stay engaged. I think that that for me is the thing that stands out the most is just how do you even stay engaged?

Rebecca Eldredge:

Yeah. Well, that's a that's a big one. And certainly what you're describing is You know, so so common and something we're finding that way to stay engaged without becoming overwhelmed. right, without a and and I see so often the conversation comes up because the people that I'm talking to are working with are already burnt out or exhausted or depleted because They've been going full speed into the advocacy, the change making in in their communities and their workplaces and and their families sometimes. And And they go go go because it is so urgent and they're so motivated and they're so upset by the way things are, and they see how important it is for things sometimes themselves and their family members. And and by going full speed like that, then they've expended all of their resources at the expense of of their own well-being. And now it's not that they're choosing to say, okay. I'm gonna take care of myself for a few minutes. It's like they there's nothing left. And so often the starting point for these conversations that I've had with clients is that is a kind of a crisis moment. Like, now now, you know, now I'm I'm so depleted, feeling so exhausted that I can't show up with my family in the ways that I want. I can let alone show up in my work the way that I want or make a difference in the way that I care about. So a lot of times, it it really comes back to -- part of why I've focused more in moving into speaking and facilitation and even a small group like chrysalis is to try to get ahead of that curve and be able to help people learn some different ways, expand how they show up to be present as you said, internally with themselves, with their own emotions, with with the anger or the fear or the heartbreak that's driving the change making, but how do you tune into that and care for that within yourself in a way that continues to empower your actions so that those 2 are are wedded together rather than feeling like, it's an either I'm taking care of myself or I'm showing up to make a difference in the world, which I think is this dichotomy that's been perpetuated by how poorly we do overall as a culture at understanding and working with our nervous system.

Sheila Franzen:

I'm like, yes. That is a very poor thing that we have entrained and ingrained particularly in North America, you know, our drive for success and our focus on movement and doing and, 6. Yeah. All those things. All those things. Right? So coming back to this aspect of nervous system and, you know, you mentioned that we end up in these places. So what what are Like, I think having been somebody who's been in burnout maybe too many times in my life because I I I do feel like I'm a change maker, and I I approach and tackle things with, like, no fears for the most part sometimes, but I do end up burnout and exhausted. So what are those early signs of overwhelm burnout and compassion? I love compassion fatigue. It is it's such a beautiful phrase. Like, I always know when I'm there, but I definitely have learned trained myself to ignore those early signs. How do you describe some of those early signs?

Rebecca Eldredge:

Well, actually, I help people to learn to recognize their own unique early signs because it's not the same for everybody, the clients that I've worked with, like, it can it can look vastly different. In some some cases, there are early signs can be that they're actually speeding up and, like, hyper productive, hyper focused, doing more and more and more. And and in other cases, it might look really the opposite. It might look like, oh, things are slowing down. It harder to get out of bed in the morning than it usually is or or even like a pattern of, oh, I'm staying up later at night because I'm so desperate that time to unwind that that's the only time that I'm getting it, but now I'm not getting enough sleep. And so So for a lot of people, it's really about learning to tune into. And one of the things that there's a lot of fun is to help people make their own nervous system mat because then they start to recognize their unique cues and clues of when they're dysregulated, when they're not in that state where they're feeling really kind of calm or connected or clear thinking, motivated without both overwhelm and recognizing then, okay, what the contrast to that. So what does it feel like when you're there and how great it feels to recognize and connect to some of the things that help you to move consistently back into that state, but then to also be able to recognize oh, here are some of my signs when I'm moving more and more out of that state. And then when you're like, for me, and this has been happening recently. So, I'll be honest, but one of my signs is that I do get really extra clumsy when I'm when I'm in and more of a state of stress when I'm in that rushing, which is for me also one of the risk factors of tending towards burnout. And I don't I don't always feel like I am the most graceful or coordinated person by any stretch. But the other day, you know, just like lifting something up off the table, and I and I jammed my hand against the wall. You know, it's like that wall did not just move. believe it or not, that wall has been in the same place for a really long time. Yeah. In this moment, I'm like, you know, grabbing my hand and also kind of laughing at myself because those moments to me are like, okay. So these moments are happening more frequently in a row, what am I doing here, and how can I shift, how I'm living, how I'm approaching things so that I'm moving back to that state that not only feels better. I mean, people, it's not just that it feels better when people are in what's the ventral Bagel state, but it's that that is the state from which you can think clearly and creatively and problem solve and communicate effectively and even read other people's communications more accurately you know, where your whole body is more healthy and functioning and the organs are doing kind of their process of working together in coordination. And so there's so much good that comes from being in that state, which when we're talking about change making and social justice work, we absolutely need all of those faculties in order to be effective in a sustainable way?

Sheila Franzen:

I, I love that you share an ex like, the I love the different examples of it isn't one size fits all. That's the aspect of getting to know ourselves and recognizing, like, the clumsy. Right? I start dropping something or running into things. It's like, wow, my nervous system is so done. I can't even navigate in in physical reality. Right? Like, I I hit that point too, and I'm like, look. There I am dropping stuff all over the place today. but rather than just go, oh, I'm tired of, like, really recognizing, It's also a way of being disconnected. Right? We're disconnected from our body. We're disconnected from that aspect of our wholehearted living or paying attention to our emotions. And, like, the one that as you were talking, And I thought about this lately, but I hadn't thought about it in the way you just said it, which really hit home for me. I Like, I've always been an introvert, and I've always enjoyed my time alone. And as a parent with a family, That looks very different. Right? Like, even though my kids, you know, I've been in school for years, I don't know. There's still a way that there's just an aspect of you're, like, always engaged. Right? You're, like, I don't turn my phone off because you know, the school might call or, like, I don't like, there's just ways that you become a parent and I become have become so engaged in that aspect of extroversion, like, all the time. And so I like, I always have been a good sleeper, but I have and I continue. And and there's always more than one reason. Right? Like, I'm not saying this is the only reason, but I am very aware that often at night, I might lay there an hour or 2, and it's almost like as I relax, and I read and, you know, I might be learning something or, you know, I spend my 10 minutes scrolling Facebook And then I read my book, and I'm like, I'm being an introvert. Everybody else is asleep. and I'm getting my own unwinding time. And it's like, that's not the right time to do that because then I actually wake up. because I'm like, oh, I'm reenergized. I've had time alone, and then I still don't go to sleep. And I'm like, like, that's not working. So that's just a really nice awareness for me to go, I need to spend some of that alone time unwinding intentionally, not doing like, I, you know, I've been better at exercising and walking and moving energy and all those things, but I'm like, just that time of, like, do whatever I want in my own brain, and it's not about family or cooking or this. or that or the next volunteer thing. I'm, you know, like, just doing that during the day so that then at night, I actually wanna go to sleep. So, so thank you. That was that was a a really good awareness.

Rebecca Eldredge:

But, yeah, I am so glad that's such a great example of identifying just how, like, whether we're paying attention to it or not, our bodies are constantly looking for what they need. And that is that's the risk when we become disconnected from it is It's still needed. We're just not tending to it intentionally. Now it's gonna come up in other ways.

Sheila Franzen:

Right. And, like, I feel like I'm pretty, like, I'm pretty aware, typically, that I'm like, that's why I'm doing that. Like, I hadn't Like, I knew that's what was happening, but I hadn't put it together in that way. So, like, it's making me laugh. Okay. Fine. I'll do that. a different way now going forward and see if I don't fall asleep a little easier. so that's that's awesome. So social justice. Right? This has like, I I wanna know, how do you define social justice?

Rebecca Eldredge:

Well, I did not practice my definitions.

Sheila Franzen:

I know. I always go to definitions. So, it fun for me because I think, like, social justice is that word that we throw around. Right? It's like, oh, well, I need to take care of my, you know, I'm, you know, social justice is important and, it is absolutely, but I'm always curious, like, Like, how do you define it? What does social or what does it mean to you?

Rebecca Eldredge:

Yeah. What it means to me is environments, systems, cultures, workplaces, communities, you know, whatever form that is in is having those spaces be welcoming and and beyond fair, you know, beyond just a tolerance for differences, but really where everybody is being treated with this respect and consideration for the for the amazing person that they are and where there's not these differences in treatments, whether overt or covert based on somebody's skin color or somebody's sexual orientation or somebody's religious or faith background. or somebody has gender or somebody has gender identity or, you know, like, all of the pieces that You know, I I focused on multicultural issues beginning with my graduate work over 20 years ago, and And that includes all of the different aspects of diversity that that make up an intersect in who we each are. And so when I talk about social justice, it's really inclusive of all of those different aspects and moving towards the spaces that that are affirming that are really affirming and valuing of all of those different parts of who somebody is and that are being fair, just equitable in welcoming people in and tending to to those interactions, to those relationships, really that can develop out of that.

Sheila Franzen:

That is such a beautiful definition of social justice and Like, for me, it brings it to really these basic tenets of life. Right? Like, often social justice I think it instills in a lot of people, almost a battle, right, that you gotta fight for people's rights. And what you're really speaking to is just this honoring of an individual for the unique beautiful being and soul that they are, right, and that every aspect of life in this wholehearted living, right, whole person living is whether it's the community, the school, Whatever it is that we can just spend more time. Like, when I think about it, for me, it's like spending more time focusing on the individual and getting to know them, then, Like, what comes to like, I'm hearing this. It's like, you know, we've ended up with so many belief systems and roles and labels in our societies. Right? Like, oh my gosh. Like, I'm just labels drive me insane. And because we've I think we've tried to use labels to describe so many things and we lose we lose track of just trying to connect and understand and respect and honor each other. and let go of all the labels. Right? It's like that aspect of coming into our own and figuring out who we are and our identity you almost have to let go of some of all of these belief systems and things would get so wrapped up in So that aspect of social justice is it's almost like just fighting for getting to be your own person.

Rebecca Eldredge:

Well, and hearing you talk, I'm I'm hearing you reflect some of that back. I'm thinking about that that's why I think that maybe you just hit on sometimes I'm kind of baffled by the outcry against social justice. You know, and even in my local community where where I live, we've made national news for not good reasons. around some incidents in our local school system that happened a few years back. And there were really really atrocious. And out of that, you know, some of the communities, some of the leaders rightfully got together and said, you know, the fact that students in our schools thought this was okay clearly as an indication that we are not creating an environment that is really truly creating an environment of inclusion and belonging for all of our students. And so they wanted to put together a a, you know, proposal or, a document unofficial school board document saying basically that we stand for creating environments in our schools that are safe and inclusive for all of our students and the amount of opposition to that. you know, I I mean, from people who are standing up saying, well, I'm not racist, but you're you're trying to, you know, insert CRT and brainwashing into our schools, right, the the opposition saying, I don't believe that, but I don't want to say that I support inclusion and belonging. You know, it's like this this 2 sided thing. And I think that that's why it does a lot of times feel like and, unfortunately, sometimes require moving into, yeah, more where What seems like it could be as simple as saying, can't we just appreciate and value all people in And even the amount that I have learned from people who are different from me, right, is so much more than the amount that I've learned from people who are similar to me. Like, that's been such a such a privilege in my life, the people that I've been able to connect to and learn from who have let me into their worlds that are different than mine. And to me, I think why why wouldn't everybody. Well, you would want that. That's my ignorance or my naivety right there. Right? But then Then like you said, like, sometimes it does get to be more of a battle because of the opposition to that. And that if if you want to continue to stand, for social justice as we're talking about it, then it it does take a lot of energy and consistency and action them in order to be able to move these mountains that are opposing it.

Sheila Franzen:

Yeah. And yeah. The the mountains that we have created around so many topics in our world and environment today. It's like if we could all just like, what I'm seeing right now are being shown as this aspect of, like, you know, like, looking it's, like, trying to step out of the situation. I'm, you know, accurate tolling and being the observer, but I'm, like, almost like seeing Earth right now and just this aspect of looking down on earth at the, you know, 8,000,000,000 people, almost 8,000,000,000 people that are on the planet. And, you know, it's a natural aspect of, of course, we're gonna have lots of opinions and beliefs and labels and communities and all of those things. And yet, if you can look and see Earth as a whole, you realize eyes, we're all in the same place. Right? Like, we're we're we're all going through the same journey being a you know, a spiritual being and a human body and trying to understand our emotions and our, you know, our responses to things and our hearts and We don't have to see these microcosms of insanity that we've created planet when we can step up above it and just see, you know, like, being all in it And it's so simple. Right? Like, but, like, the we're like, we're all here and we are all the same from that perspective. Right? Like, we're all the same and that we're all here navigating our journey through life on this planet. and, focusing on, you know, commonalities and similarities versus focusing on the differences I don't know. It feels like it's such a simple concept, but goodness, it's a hard one in our minds that want to find, you know, find our uniqueness through our differences instead of finding our uniqueness within realizing the ways were all connected and the same.

Rebecca Eldredge:

Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. It was beautifully stated. And as as I'm hearing you say that too, I'm just thinking about how much emotions have to do with what connect us, and experience. And and so how I see sometimes people that are struggling to connect to others or to empathize or to understand somebody else's struggle are also, in a position where it hard for them to bring compassion and understanding to their own struggles. And so, again, just centering back on how important It is how essential, really, in order to connect to others, to be able to also connect and tune inward toward those wise in our guides that we have of our own sensations and emotions.

Sheila Franzen:

Right. Because that aspect of emotion that you're talking about, you know, energy. One definition is you know, energy in motion, right, or emotions give us, you know, it gives us information. And it's the what we do with those emotions that play into our connection, our mental health, are taking care of ourselves, our ability to actually then try to create change. Right? And although sometimes I, like, as I say that, I'm like, Maybe sometimes we focus too much on the actual change making and what we need to focus more on is the Wow. What what would be the like, I guess what I'm trying to or what I'm seeing or trying to say is Like, trying to change others is actually never gonna get you anywhere in some ways. Right?

Rebecca Eldredge:

Mhmm.

Sheila Franzen:

like, we have to change ourselves and how we see the world and how we interpret the world, and we can inspire others. But in in some ways, it's almost the pure nature of using the word change making that creates a battle. Right? People don't wanna be changed. people, you know, if people are stat the people we probably have these moments of wanting to change the most, are the people we need to have the most compassionate understanding for because it's, you know, if we're that stuck in our struggles, We don't wanna change. Right? What we need is understanding.

Rebecca Eldredge:

Yeah. And the nervous system has so much offer there too. Right? Because, of course, like, as soon as I feel defensive, as soon as I feel like somebody's trying to change me or telling me that I'm wrong in some way. I'm no longer in the state from which I could be receptive or use my credit working skills and be self reflective and aware. Right? So so it it's tricky because, Well, we can see the necessity of change. And, I mean, the stakes are so high in people's lives. being being lost, being taken, you know, we're not talking about something insignificant here. And so so there's so much energy and passion around the need to do this. And yet in order to bring more people along, it has to actually, from a nervous system perspective, have ways to have these conversations and ways that feel safe enough the differences can come to the same table and be talked about and expressed and heard in order to actually form again back to the interpersonal relationship, even to change systems, We still have to change it through the individual people that are making up systems or casting their votes for the leaders within those systems.

Sheila Franzen:

Yeah. And, like, safety is the word that stood out for me if what you were just saying because Like, we don't wanna change because we don't feel safe. Right? People don't wanna change because something doesn't feel safe. They've been triggered by something and and safety comes back to a nervous system. Right? So this whole, you know, we to I love your connect and your how you bring in this aspect of being present, right, and the aspect of our, nervous system and our mental health and knowing ourselves because if we really want to create a more connected world in a world of change making and social justice, what we're, you know, Like, I just keep seeing it's like this bigger, more connected world. Right? It's not a more disconnected isolated world. It's a more connected world as we look at, the earth. People have to feel safe. And so, yeah, the aspect of safety is such a huge, could have a whole another conversation around safety, I think, because

Rebecca Eldredge:

Absolutely.

Sheila Franzen:

So many things trigger our nervous system into not feeling safe.

Rebecca Eldredge:

Mhmm. Absolutely. Yeah. And we have even the epigenetic and intergenerational effects that are worse. So, yes, that could be a whole another

Sheila Franzen:

Yeah. Those patterns and behaviors and then, that I would wanna, you know, have fun with we bring all that in and, like, it affects all of us and then where are we still as individuals within our own family systems and our own cultures and communities. Right? I mean, that's the all so much of So much gets lost in this aspect when we talk about social justice of like, fighting for groups of people because of the horrendous things that are going on that We start to try and separate groups being better or worse than other groups or right and wrong and you know, individuals within groups. And, you know, when you did your definition of social justice, it's that, like, all people It's not about getting treated equal, but just that all people are honored and respected.

Rebecca Eldredge:

you

Sheila Franzen:

know, I loved in one of your videos on your web I'd actually like, I one of the notes I took was you grew up learning that every single person is worthy of love. and that, you know, was junior high that you started to go, wow. Not everybody treats everybody that way. Right?

Rebecca Eldredge:

And it's like a little late memorialization.

Sheila Franzen:

Yeah. And it's like, I had a realization in high school. Like, I had wanted to be a teacher all my life, and then I had this realization. I was like, and people really aren't kind to the teachers. I, like, don't wanna step into that. You know, now I've stepped into being a teacher. In other ways, in my life, but, yeah, it was that awareness that this is this world does not operate in a We say these things, but we don't always act them out. Right. So, yeah, I it's this continuing to bring voice to these things. And focusing. I love that you, you know, you bring your focus back to helping people remain present so that you can stay engaged in this concept of social justice change and social justice awareness It's almost, like, I almost love the word social justice awareness because it's part of it is just trying to bring awareness to whether it isn't social justice, right, because You can't change it if people aren't even aware that we have a problem.

Rebecca Eldredge:

Right. And I think you've alluded to this a few times. Like, we can't get caught in just the language of of what we call things when we're actually talking to people, but knowing what we're what we're about and what we're doing it for, and how we need to take care of ourselves since we are the tools. We are the only tools that we have in order to really build these relationships, have these conversations, and make a difference.

Sheila Franzen:

Yes. So bringing us back to then, I think that's a great actual way to probably find a a path here to close our conversation, which is the that's what you're doing. Right? That's what your whole focus is with your small group work and your individual work and speaking and your inspiration is, you know, helping people reminding people to come back to this taking care of themselves. and through their path of change. So if people want to connect with you further, and work with you and learn more about what You're doing. What's the best way for them to do that?

Rebecca Eldredge:

I would love for people to contact me. I love to have conversations here. What resonated with you or any questions that you might have, and they can either contact me through the form on my website. There's a contact wormbear@rebekahd.com. I'm also on LinkedIn, and so welcome to send me a message there. And, if you want to join my weekly email encouragement, inspiration, kind of self care news letter, then, you can do that through my website as well.

Sheila Franzen:

Thank you, Rebecca. And your website is what? rebekahephd.com. Perfect. Well, thank you for joining me today. It's been fun and, Yeah. Quite, has my thinking has my thinking about some things of where I may have disengaged and not been willing to you know, stay present in my own journey of things that, or how I can bring more awareness, right, and still take care of myself. So thank you. Thank you for the conversation.

Rebecca Eldredge:

Thank you, Sheila. So I'm great talking with you about all this today and your listeners as well.

Sheila Franzen:

Thank you. So you've just listened to the spiritual Geek podcast. Thanks for joining us. If you've enjoyed the episode, be sure to share a comment and a rating on your favorite podcast platform. If you were inspired, consider sharing this episode with friends and family. Love and light to each of you, and may your day be filled with joy and wisdom as you consciously create your life.